Interview with James Nunley Technical Consultant, SeboTek Hearing Systems
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Topic: Technical Aspects of the PAC
AO/Beck: Hi Jim. Thanks for your time this morning. Let's start with your education and professional background if you don't mind?
Nunley: Sure, no problem. I got involved in the hearing industry in the early 1950s because my mother had difficulties with her hearing. As you might expect, she had a number of people trying to sell her hearing aids at that point. I discovered a new ear doctor in Oklahoma City. He did surgery on my mom for otosclerosis, and as a result, her hearing was remarkably improved. This experience got me interested in hearing and set me on a path of trying to learn more about hearing and acoustics. I got a degree in physics from Oklahoma State University and then did advanced work at the University of Colorado in mathematics and acoustics.
AO/Beck: How did you get into the hearing industry?
Nunley: Well, in 1959, I was at Vicom and we started designing and building hearing aids. We built one of the first stereo body aids for children and we built one of the first eyeglass model hearing aids, too. That was about the same time Sam Lybarger was doing some of his work. Then around 1960 or so, Marion Downs from the University of Colorado convinced us to build an infant testing screener. We built it and named it the Atriton. We also built one of the first hearing aid analyzers and were issued patents on implantable hearing devices, too. So it was very exciting, creative and innovative. We really did a lot of early work at Vicom.
AO/Beck: How long were you with Vicom?
Nunley: I was with Vicom from 1959 through 1973, and then I moved to Arizona to work for Audiotone. At Audiotone, we got what I think was the first patent on a wearable digital hearing aid. And we received other hearing aid patents, too. I stayed at Audiotone until approximately 1989. At that time I decided to become a consultant for the industry and also had a half-time appointment to the Oregon Health Science University as Assistant Professor in Otolaryngology. After Vicom, I worked with a number of companies but my most extensive hearing aid experience was with 3M, an assignment that lasted nearly ten years.
AO/Beck: How did you hook up with SeboTek?
Nunley: Through my association with Dr. Hough in Oklahoma City. Dr. Hough knew Jim and Mike Feeley, and he introduced me to them. I was intrigued with the hearing aid idea they had and that started my relationship with Jim and Mike and SeboTek about three years ago.
AO/Beck: What can you tell me about the PAC, Post-Auricular Canal aid?
Nunley: As I mentioned, I was impressed with the idea of the PAC because you get all the benefits of a behind-the-ear without all the negatives. Likewise, you get all the benefits of a CIC without those known problems. So PAC offers exceptional value and opportunity for hearing aid wearers, but no one had thought of it before. In fact, I kept wondering why I hadn't thought of it!
AO/Beck: And so you're essentially a technical advisor for SeboTek?
Nunley: Yes. I came on board to really get involved on the technical side. My task was to make sure the design parameters were right and the system functioned properly and reliably, and to be sure it delivered excellent sound quality. I'm really pleased with the results and consider the PAC to be one of the true engineering jewels in the industry at this time.
AO/Beck: What are the advantages of the Post-Auricular Canal, as compared to a custom fit CIC?
Nunley: The biggest advantage is that this device has the cosmetic advantage of a CIC, and the functionality of a BTE. You have the advantage of minimal, almost non-existent feedback, and you have the advantage of minimal, almost non-existent occlusion. Therefore, for the first time perhaps, you have an instrument that is comfortable, electroacoustically flexible, is almost physically transparent and the people wearing it report that it helps them hear sounds like they remember hearing them.
AO/Beck: Please tell me about the occlusion effect and the PAC. I think some people will look at this and see that it does indeed seal the ear and so the assumption might be that you would have occlusion. Can you discuss that topic?
Nunley: The best way to answer that question is to remind readers that occlusion is a pressure build up in the ear. With PAC, once you slide it past the second bend, you literally eliminate the pressure build up. I know we've all heard that claim before. But our tests show that the occlusion effect is almost non-existent with the PAC.
AO/Beck: Very impressive. What size battery does it use?
Nunley: Jim and Mike insisted that it be a 13, and in a unit as small as this is, you'd be amazed that you can put a 13 in it.
AO/Beck: Please tell me about the circuitry.
Nunley: We wanted to design a system that delivers excellent clarity and exceptionally natural sound quality. So, we chose to go with a digital, four-band system, with a wide bandwidth of approximately 16,000 Hz. We're using a chip that was essentially customized for SeboTek.
AO/Beck: Very good. Please tell me about the multi-memory settings. How many memories does the PAC have?
Nunley: We have the ability to program up to four memories. We make the first memory a mute, the second memory an Omni, we make the third memory a telecoil, and the fourth memory directional.
AO/Beck: Please tell me about the directional characteristics.
Nunley: We chose a two mic system, so we actually do have forward and rear microphones.
AO/Beck: Okay and do you know what the AIDI value is?
Nunley: Off the top of my head, I think it's about 5.
AO/Beck: So the user just presses a button on the post-auricular portion of the instrument to access the four memories?
Nunley: Right.
AO/Beck: Which type of T-coil is it?
Nunley: This T-coil is your standard T-coil but, we have the ability to adjust the gain to so that it is equal to or better than the microphone sensitivity.
AO/Beck: And what's the maximum output of the T-coil?
Nunley: It can go up to 105 dB SPL.
AO/Beck: Can you change the spectral response of the T-coil?
Nunley: You have all of the same programming flexibility that you have with the Omni Mic mode - frequency response, compression, time constants, etc. Plus you have T-coil sensitivity as well.
AO/Beck: Am I correct that the fitting protocol allows you to fit and dispense the PAC all in one appointment?
Nunley: You can bring the patient in, test them, put the device on them, program the device, and let them walk out wearing the device instead of having to wait for a custom ear mold. We have a number of different-sized fitting tips and speaker links, and the links come in both right and left, too. Speaker links, by the way, are the wires running from the speaker to the sound processor.
AO/Beck: What is the likely failure point when these finally go belly-up?
Nunley: Well the nice part of the design is that you have wax guard protection built into the link portion. As you know, the biggest problem with hearing aids is wax in the receiver. With the PAC, if the receiver (speaker, as we refer to it) eventually got clogged, you just replace the link. Otherwise, the life expectancy is over 3 ½ years which is as long as the first product has been in the field..
AO/Beck: Lastly, what can you tell me about the fitting software?
Nunley: The fitting software is the best I've ever seen. It's extremely user friendly and is almost totally intuitive. The quick fit is quite good and you don't have to do much tweaking.
AO/Beck: Very good. Thanks so much for sharing your time and knowledge with us today.
Nunley: Thank you too Doug. Happy to help!
Click here to visit the Sebotek website.
Nunley: Sure, no problem. I got involved in the hearing industry in the early 1950s because my mother had difficulties with her hearing. As you might expect, she had a number of people trying to sell her hearing aids at that point. I discovered a new ear doctor in Oklahoma City. He did surgery on my mom for otosclerosis, and as a result, her hearing was remarkably improved. This experience got me interested in hearing and set me on a path of trying to learn more about hearing and acoustics. I got a degree in physics from Oklahoma State University and then did advanced work at the University of Colorado in mathematics and acoustics.
AO/Beck: How did you get into the hearing industry?
Nunley: Well, in 1959, I was at Vicom and we started designing and building hearing aids. We built one of the first stereo body aids for children and we built one of the first eyeglass model hearing aids, too. That was about the same time Sam Lybarger was doing some of his work. Then around 1960 or so, Marion Downs from the University of Colorado convinced us to build an infant testing screener. We built it and named it the Atriton. We also built one of the first hearing aid analyzers and were issued patents on implantable hearing devices, too. So it was very exciting, creative and innovative. We really did a lot of early work at Vicom.
AO/Beck: How long were you with Vicom?
Nunley: I was with Vicom from 1959 through 1973, and then I moved to Arizona to work for Audiotone. At Audiotone, we got what I think was the first patent on a wearable digital hearing aid. And we received other hearing aid patents, too. I stayed at Audiotone until approximately 1989. At that time I decided to become a consultant for the industry and also had a half-time appointment to the Oregon Health Science University as Assistant Professor in Otolaryngology. After Vicom, I worked with a number of companies but my most extensive hearing aid experience was with 3M, an assignment that lasted nearly ten years.
AO/Beck: How did you hook up with SeboTek?
Nunley: Through my association with Dr. Hough in Oklahoma City. Dr. Hough knew Jim and Mike Feeley, and he introduced me to them. I was intrigued with the hearing aid idea they had and that started my relationship with Jim and Mike and SeboTek about three years ago.
AO/Beck: What can you tell me about the PAC, Post-Auricular Canal aid?
Nunley: As I mentioned, I was impressed with the idea of the PAC because you get all the benefits of a behind-the-ear without all the negatives. Likewise, you get all the benefits of a CIC without those known problems. So PAC offers exceptional value and opportunity for hearing aid wearers, but no one had thought of it before. In fact, I kept wondering why I hadn't thought of it!
AO/Beck: And so you're essentially a technical advisor for SeboTek?
Nunley: Yes. I came on board to really get involved on the technical side. My task was to make sure the design parameters were right and the system functioned properly and reliably, and to be sure it delivered excellent sound quality. I'm really pleased with the results and consider the PAC to be one of the true engineering jewels in the industry at this time.
AO/Beck: What are the advantages of the Post-Auricular Canal, as compared to a custom fit CIC?
Nunley: The biggest advantage is that this device has the cosmetic advantage of a CIC, and the functionality of a BTE. You have the advantage of minimal, almost non-existent feedback, and you have the advantage of minimal, almost non-existent occlusion. Therefore, for the first time perhaps, you have an instrument that is comfortable, electroacoustically flexible, is almost physically transparent and the people wearing it report that it helps them hear sounds like they remember hearing them.
AO/Beck: Please tell me about the occlusion effect and the PAC. I think some people will look at this and see that it does indeed seal the ear and so the assumption might be that you would have occlusion. Can you discuss that topic?
Nunley: The best way to answer that question is to remind readers that occlusion is a pressure build up in the ear. With PAC, once you slide it past the second bend, you literally eliminate the pressure build up. I know we've all heard that claim before. But our tests show that the occlusion effect is almost non-existent with the PAC.
AO/Beck: Very impressive. What size battery does it use?
Nunley: Jim and Mike insisted that it be a 13, and in a unit as small as this is, you'd be amazed that you can put a 13 in it.
AO/Beck: Please tell me about the circuitry.
Nunley: We wanted to design a system that delivers excellent clarity and exceptionally natural sound quality. So, we chose to go with a digital, four-band system, with a wide bandwidth of approximately 16,000 Hz. We're using a chip that was essentially customized for SeboTek.
AO/Beck: Very good. Please tell me about the multi-memory settings. How many memories does the PAC have?
Nunley: We have the ability to program up to four memories. We make the first memory a mute, the second memory an Omni, we make the third memory a telecoil, and the fourth memory directional.
AO/Beck: Please tell me about the directional characteristics.
Nunley: We chose a two mic system, so we actually do have forward and rear microphones.
AO/Beck: Okay and do you know what the AIDI value is?
Nunley: Off the top of my head, I think it's about 5.
AO/Beck: So the user just presses a button on the post-auricular portion of the instrument to access the four memories?
Nunley: Right.
AO/Beck: Which type of T-coil is it?
Nunley: This T-coil is your standard T-coil but, we have the ability to adjust the gain to so that it is equal to or better than the microphone sensitivity.
AO/Beck: And what's the maximum output of the T-coil?
Nunley: It can go up to 105 dB SPL.
AO/Beck: Can you change the spectral response of the T-coil?
Nunley: You have all of the same programming flexibility that you have with the Omni Mic mode - frequency response, compression, time constants, etc. Plus you have T-coil sensitivity as well.
AO/Beck: Am I correct that the fitting protocol allows you to fit and dispense the PAC all in one appointment?
Nunley: You can bring the patient in, test them, put the device on them, program the device, and let them walk out wearing the device instead of having to wait for a custom ear mold. We have a number of different-sized fitting tips and speaker links, and the links come in both right and left, too. Speaker links, by the way, are the wires running from the speaker to the sound processor.
AO/Beck: What is the likely failure point when these finally go belly-up?
Nunley: Well the nice part of the design is that you have wax guard protection built into the link portion. As you know, the biggest problem with hearing aids is wax in the receiver. With the PAC, if the receiver (speaker, as we refer to it) eventually got clogged, you just replace the link. Otherwise, the life expectancy is over 3 ½ years which is as long as the first product has been in the field..
AO/Beck: Lastly, what can you tell me about the fitting software?
Nunley: The fitting software is the best I've ever seen. It's extremely user friendly and is almost totally intuitive. The quick fit is quite good and you don't have to do much tweaking.
AO/Beck: Very good. Thanks so much for sharing your time and knowledge with us today.
Nunley: Thank you too Doug. Happy to help!
Click here to visit the Sebotek website.
