Interview with Gus Mueller, Ph.D.

Topic: The Inspiration for Page 10, How to Win the Trivia Bowl and Growing Up in Rural North Dakota

[transcription started - timestamp from recording - 9:42 p.m. CDT, 03 June 2006]

Dybala: Hello everyone, I am in Bismarck, North Dakota at the East 40 Steakhouse and Monday Night Sushi Bar, spending some time this evening with H. Gustav "Gus" Mueller, Ph.D. Many Audiology Online readers know Dr. Mueller for his books, workshops, seminars, and his Page Ten feature in The Hearing Journal. He has made significant contributions in many areas of audiology, especially concerning the selection and fitting of hearing aids.

Well Gus, thanks for taking time to meet with me this evening. You were even nice enough to take me out to dinner - I really appreciate that.

Mueller: My pleasure, Paul. I wanted you to know that we really do have restaurants that use tablecloths in Bismarck! I believe, however, that the agreement was that I would pick up the dinner tab if you took care of the after-dinner beverages.

Dybala: I see you had them bring the Port menu, and it's in that dreaded leather binder, so I think you'll probably come out ahead. But I am okay with that.

Mueller: Don't worry, I won't order anything older than I am!

Dybala: Gee, thanks a lot [laughs]. Gus, during interviews I usually work chronologically. I begin with where a person started and then move forward to the present day. You are an interesting guy, so I think it might be more appropriate to tell your story in reverse chronology. If you would, start us off with some of your current job titles and appointments. I know that your home office is here in Bismarck, but you're on the road a lot. Tell me about your average work week.


Gus Mueller, a 1dB Guy

Mueller: My typical work week is probably a little different than that of most audiologists, as I'm involved in several part-time activities, sometimes three or four during the same day. For starters, I'm a Professor at Vanderbilt, where I help Todd Ricketts and the crew teach hearing aids, and occasionally hang out in the lab and try to learn something from all the serious researchers and Ph.D. students. For ten years at Vandy we conducted three-day hearing aid workshops for practicing audiologists, but the workshops are on hold for the moment. I also teach one of the hearing aid classes for the Vanderbilt/Central Michigan Au.D. distance learning program.

Dybala: Let me interrupt you for a moment— we were talking the other day and you mentioned to me that you've had nearly 500 distance learning Au.D. students. That's great, but I've heard through the grapevine that your hearing aid class is tough, and some people even fail. True?

Mueller: You know Paul, it sort of bothers me when people make that sound like a bad thing. Aren't all doctoral-level courses supposed to be tough? I thought that was the idea of upgrading to the Au.D. My online course is no more difficult than what we teach at the residential program at Vandy. When students have had serious problems (which rarely happens I might add), it's usually because they thought they were signing up for a remedial masters-level class, rather than moving on to the next level.

Dybala: Okay—understand where you're coming from—please continue with your "jobs description."

Mueller: In addition to my days at Vanderbilt, I'm a consultant for Siemens Hearing Instruments, a position I've had since 1991. It's a fun job as it involves so many things—training, research, writing, working on new products and traveling all over the world doing workshops. A third job, which I've also had since 1991, is Contributing Editor for The Hearing Journal, which is also great, as in addition to the writing opportunities, the Editor, David Kirkwood lets me help out a little with other projects.

Dybala: And we're pleased to help out by posting all the Hearing Journal articles here at Audiology Online. I also see your name on the agenda at a lot of state and regional workshops.

Mueller: Well, that "job" is by invitation only, but yes, if the phone rings, I rarely say "no."

Dybala: And those are all your jobs?

Mueller: Let's see—I did recently sign on as a Section Editor for Plural Publishing. We've already got some great new books on hearing aids in the works. I don't know who this Harvey Dillon guy is, but it's only fair that he has a little competition!

Dybala: Do you still also have a private dispensing practice?

Mueller: No, I gave that up ten years ago. I started dispensing hearing aids in 1971, and 25 years of plugged earmolds and receiver tubing seemed long enough. More importantly, I don't even know how to clean receiver tubing and I'm pretty terrible at running a business—I've never so much as balanced my personal checking account!

Dybala: Speaking of checking accounts, our Port has arrived—Cheers.

Mueller: And Cheers to you too!


Gus Mueller, AAA 2006 Distinguished Achievement Award Winner

Dybala: I recall reading that you are one of the founders of the American Academy of Audiology, you were a member of the inaugural Executive Board, and now I see that you were recently awarded the AAA 2006 Distinguished Achievement Award - tell us more about that honor.

Mueller: Well first, I'd like to say that it indeed was an honor, and was totally unexpected. This was the first year for this Award so I don't know much about it, but my understanding is that it is given to individuals who have had an impact on the profession through teaching, clinical service, research contribution, and program development, or some combination of those things. Not sure how I qualified, but I'm not giving it back!

Dybala: I was leaked a photo of you from the AAA meeting, which I'm going to display when this interview is posted. It was taken at your Post-Award Gusfest party—the photo suggests that all the attendees were women.

Mueller: And there is something wrong with that?!


Gus Mueller and friends at post-award party

Dybala: Point taken. Speaking of photos, I saw at the AAA Convention that they had profiles of each of the award winners. Your profile had you standing in-front of a pretty nice car (I think it was a BMW Z3) and a custom license plate "1DB GUY". I obtained a copy of that photo for this interview. Tell us the story behind the plate. Is that really your license plate and car, or just your plate on another person's car?

Mueller: There are a lot of sayings about why guys in their 50s drive sports cars, but to maintain our PG-13 rating, let's not go there. Yes, the plate and car are mine. Since you seem like the curious type, my Jeep is "2DB GUY." I know, I know, it's a bit corny, but "OLDWHITEHAIREDGUY" exceeded the seven-letter maximum allowed.

Dybala: You mentioned that you work for The Hearing Journal. The most popular feature of that Journal is your Page Ten. What was your inspiration for the Page Ten format?

Mueller: When I started working for The Hearing Journal, I thought it was important that readers could count on at least one article a month that had a bit of science and was not a disguised infomercial. I thought that that would set us apart from our main competitor at the time, Hearing Instruments. David Kirkwood was okay with that idea, and we agreed that I would edit a monthly feature. When I worked at Walter Reed Medical Center I lived in Maryland, and always read a column on page three of the sports pages of the Baltimore Sun titled Page Three. I also was a regular reader of Playboy, and always liked their monthly "20 Questions" interview. There are certain mandatory things that go in the first few pages of The Hearing Journal and me and my 20 Questions on page three wasn't an option. So, my vote was to call it either Page Nine or Page Eleven (I think odd numbers just sound more interesting). Turns out, however, that odd numbered pages are prime space for advertising—the casual reader will be more apt to look at these pages because of the way a magazine opens—so Page Ten it was! Over the years there have been about 125 or so Page Ten articles.

Dybala: Wow—that's a lot of sidebars for you to write. I hope you put them all on your vitae! As you mentioned, your Page Tens are in the 20 Question format. I think that many people assume that you ask the questions, but it is actually someone else asking the questions, right? Who really is asking the questions?

Mueller: Hmm. Hadn't occurred to me that people think I'm the one asking the questions. Doesn't say much for what people think I know about audiology [laughs]. The actual "Question Guy" is someone only known to me, although David Kirkwood might know. Question Guy probably will reveal himself in our final installment, but that's many years away.

Dybala: I didn't know the audiology publishing business was so steeped in mystery. Earlier, you mentioned Playboy magazine. My spies tell me that you even have been published there. True story?

Mueller: [smiles and takes long sip of Port] Well yeah, if you count "Letters to the Editor" as a publication, and some people do, you know. My letter appeared back in September of 2004.

Dybala: Probably your most read publication ever!

Mueller: Given that their circulation is 4.5 million, I'm quite certain you're right. If only one person in every 10,000 stumbled onto page 15 of that issue by accident, it would still exceed the number of people who have ever read one of my audiology pieces.

Dybala: Let's move on to your best known writing, something that almost all audiologists have read—your questions for the annual Trivia Bowl at the AAA meeting. I've attended many of them and you really look like you're having fun up there.

Mueller: Well, if you like audiology, frivolity, a good laugh and a little beer and wine thrown in—my top four activities—it doesn't get any better. Jerry Northern is a great collaborator and he is the person who makes it all work. The two of us have been hosting the Trivia Bowl for 17 years. At last count, we have accumulated over 500 questions. Who knows—you just might see an Audiology Trivia game on DVD one of these days.

Dybala: The team names are pretty good, too; do you have any favorites that come to mind? I know this last year the winning team name by a landslide was "Nice Tymps."

Mueller: I don't vote in the finals, but I'm always partial to the regional twists, like "Supreme Corti's" for the Washington D.C. meeting. You could do "Rocky Mountain High-Drops" for next year in Denver—you wouldn't win the team name contest, but you could do it. But, with no disrespect intended to our father of audiology, how can your all time favorite team name not be "Narhart's Crotch"?

Dybala: I won't even ask about the make-up of that team. I admit, I love to play each year, and I like the free beer too, but I would much rather win. The best my team has ever done is 3rd place. How about some pointers on how to prepare for the Trivia Bowl?

Mueller: There usually are over 60 teams playing, so 3rd place is nothing to sneeze at! But to win, like most things in audiology, reading sure helps—we usually have five questions a year that come straight out of USA Today. It also helps to have a team with diverse audiologic interests, and probably also a diverse age range, as some questions are historical and others relate to daily clinical practice. I guess the age thing isn't always necessary, however, as in 2005 a group of students from Pittsburgh nearly won it all, and this year the first place team was loaded with a bunch of guys who appeared to be over 80!

Dybala: Over 80—that's cruel—you're going to hear from some of those "old guys." Maybe two glasses of Port was enough. Let's talk a little about your research. I know you've published well over a hundred articles, dating back to 1976. Do you find all that writing a chore?

Mueller: First, just to clarify, at least 1/2 of those articles are about someone else's research, not mine. I haven't done much independent research for the past 15 years. To answer your question—no, it's not a chore. Although I usually am getting paid to write, I really enjoy it. You load up on good snacks and cold beverages; it's a great way to spend an evening or a weekend.

Dybala: That's true of all your writing?

Mueller: No. Writing book chapters (unless it's your own book) is not fun at all. I guess that I do need to add that I enjoy it if certain conditions are met. First, I need to have something to say that I believe needs saying [Mueller quickly inserts: YES, you can verify the fit of open products using the NAL-NL1 and probe-mic measures!] Secondly, I'm allowed to write in a style that is casual enough to make the article easy to read. Learning and fun are not mutually exclusive. And finally, it's only enjoyable when I know that there's not going to be someone later on telling me I can't say what I want to say. I guess there's also a fourth thing—It helps if you know it's going to be in print in a month or so.

Dybala: Hmm. Your criteria sound a lot like mine for my Audiology Online interviews! From your description, I'm guessing then, that it's more fun when you are not writing for a peer-reviewed journal. Do you have some favorite articles from the past 30 years?

Mueller: To be honest, it's usually the last one I wrote. But, I'm a baseball fan, so I'd have to say that my all time favorite was the one I wrote about twelve years ago as a feature article for the Hearing Journal. It discussed how six different "Yogi-isms" relate to the selection and fitting of hearing aids.

Dybala: "Yogi-isms." For our readers who are not baseball fans, I assume you're talking about the famous quotes from the one-time Yankee catcher Yogi Berra.

Mueller: Right. "When there is a fork in the road take it," and other similar profound truisms. Yogi signed a copy of the article, which also helps make that one a little special. I'm also fond of a Hearing Journal Page Ten I wrote about the same time—1995 I think—titled: "Probe-Mic measures: Unplugged," which is autographed by Todd of Big Head Todd and the Monsters (www.bigheadtodd.com) —a story too long to go into. Another article, also on probe-mic measures, one I wrote with David Hawkins in December of 1985 is memorable because we were invited to write the article on a Monday or Tuesday, collected the data on a Friday, wrote the article over the weekend, express mailed it on the next Monday, and it was in print in Hearing Instruments two weeks later in the January 1986 issue! It still gets referenced today. The count-the-dot article with Mead Killion, an article from around 1990 in the Hearing Journal is also a favorite, partly because we verbally wrote it in Mead's hot tub (located in his kitchen) and also because it nearly went to press with 101 dots on the audiogram rather than 100. I sort of wish it had gone to press with 101 dots, just to see if anyone would ever notice.

Dybala: I'd have to say that my personal favorite is the Page Ten you just wrote a few months ago for KEMAR.

Mueller: Not sure what you're referring to—KEMAR did that all by himself/herself.

Dybala: Well, I alluded to your early work experiences. Tell us about your career in the U.S. Army?


LTC Gus Mueller, circa 1986, during his military service

Mueller: I was in the Army for 20 years, working as an audiologist in Medical Centers for all but the three years I was "released" to obtain my Ph.D. It was a good learning experience and the Army treated me great. Had short hair been as fashionable in the 1970s as it is now, I would have liked it even more!

Dybala: What work settings are the most memorable?

Mueller: From the fun side, you can't beat the eight years I spent at Letterman Army Medical Center, overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. We had a small staff of only 5 audiologists, but we did a lot of good clinical audiology, fit a ton of hearing aids, and had three or four clinical research projects going on at all times. And, I must admit, we didn't do too much work over the weekend (it was San Francisco after all). My best professional experience during those years clearly was my time at Walter Reed—I was there for seven years as Chief of Clinical Audiology. I had a staff of around 10-15 audiologists, depending on the year, and all total we had around 20 audiologists at the center.

Dybala: What about your fondest memory from those 1980's Walter Reed days?

Mueller: Well, I'm a competitive guy, so I'd have to say that my fondest memory was the year—1984, I think—that the Clinical Section (my section) had ten research papers accepted for presentation at the annual ASHA meeting and the Research Section, headed by Brian Walden, only had seven! For one audiology center to have 17 presentations is pretty cool, but beating Brian and the research section was even better.

Dybala: You know Gus, Brian Walden could read this.

Mueller: Oh. . . Always liked your work Brian . . . and your golfing . . . and your violin playing . . . I like your wife Therese too—no, not like, like in a bad lusty kind of way . . . just like, like in a good way . . .

Dybala: Okay, enough! Going back even further, where did you do your graduate work and who were some of your classmates. Any stories to tell from those days?

Mueller: I obtained my Ph.D. from the University of Denver in 1976. My Ph.D. days were pretty unspectacular. During my first year, the professors continually reminded me how brilliant the recent doctoral graduates Tom Fria and John Ferraro were. They even liked a speech pathologist, Malcom "Mick" McNeil (now head of the Pitt program) better than me. And then, in my second year, along came "Miss Personality", Patti McCarthy, and how do you compete with her? My only claim to fame, other than my parties, was that my doctoral dissertation defense set a department record for brevity.

Dybala: Because of your profound responses to their questions?

Mueller: It was Friday afternoon and a gorgeous spring day in Colorado!

Dybala: Okay, well let's go back a little further. What got you started in the profession?

Mueller: My entrance into the profession of audiology was more happenstance than planning—I was a sophomore at NDSU in Fargo, majoring in Engineering and failing differential equations and organic chemistry. My advisor told me to go find a new major. The only grade I had obtained in two years higher than a "C" was an "A" in a speech and drama class, so I headed straight to that building. Looking for a bathroom in the basement I ran into a fraternity brother (now audiologist Mike Larson from Illinois) in the speech pathology department. He informed me I could score a "B" in most classes without going to class, so I signed up! Down the road a few years, armed with my brand new 1972 Edition of the Katz handbook, I was a neophyte audiologist in the Army, stationed at a Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. The Otolaryngology Department had two audiology consultants who came in twice a year and did day-long presentations to the otolaryngology residents. Their names: James Jerger and Chuck Berlin. They were very good (and still are), and I was pretty much mesmerized by their presentations. After their talks we'd go to the Officer's Club for a beverage or two. Spending time around them is what convinced me that audiologists had power, and that I needed a Ph.D. to compete.


Gus Mueller, dancing on the farm, a North Dakota beginning!

Dybala: I guess this then takes us back to the very beginning, your North Dakota roots. I see at your web site (www.gusmueller.net) that you grew up on a farm near a small town. Do you think that this upbringing contributed to your professional success?

Mueller: [leaning over the table and becoming uncharacteristically serious] Absolutely. My brothers had left home by the time I was born, so I grew up as an only child hanging out on the farm. Given the absence of today's technology and distractions, my childhood "playtime" usually consisted of making things out of dirt, stones or sticks, writing stories, or inventing playmates. A big imagination was essential. My school was very small, around 40 people in high school, so it was easy to participate in all school activities. For example, you didn't "try-out" for the basketball team—if your parents could spare you from farm work so that you could come to practice, you were on the team! Even though it should have been obvious at the time, in my mind, I actually thought I made the team because I was good! When you "make-the-team" each year for sports, music, the school paper, the school play, and all other school activities, and you have a big imagination, you walk away feeling pretty confident that you can do most anything in life that you want. And yes, a big imagination coupled with false confidence can get you into trouble too.

Dybala: I've heard those stories, but going back to farm life, it was my understanding that you even had some interest in audiology as a child and this also inspired you to help launch a web site recently, earTunes.com. Tell us a bit about that.

Mueller: Yeah, it's pretty unbelievable. Being an earTunes guy yourself Paul, specifically an earGuy, you already know the story. But since you're recording this interview, I'll tell it one more time: I guess it really started when I was taking piano lessons as a kid, but of course now, I only play piano when there are combinations of audiology and beer. Actually, I first thought of an earTunes.com collection when I was 10. On a hot summer day I was outside my farm home near Ryder, North Dakota, standing in the pasture east of the house with my dog Rover, working on a far-field insect localization project for my 5th grade audiology class. During the process of calculating pinna effects, out of the silence, I heard this song echo across the plains from the radio on my dad's Model D John Deere tractor ..... mp3.

Dybala: Okay, okay, I can tell that this interview is well past its peak, and I can't afford another round of drinks, so let's call it a night! [laughs] Gus, thank your for your time and your hospitality and I just want to say that I have always appreciated the way that you have strived to make learning about audiology "fun". Congratulations on your award from the Academy, you deserve it.

Mueller: Well, thank you Paul for the opportunity. This has been the best interview that I have participated in, and I really enjoy the work you are doing there at Audiology Online.

[silence]

[shuffling sound]

[clicking sound]

Dybala: Ok, we're done. I just turned off the recorder. That was fun! Do you think the ending was a little too much with all the compliments and stuff?

Mueller: No, I think it was fine. People only believe about 50% of what they read anyway.

Dybala: So, Mead Killion doesn't have a hot tub in his kitchen?

Mueller: [laughs] Not any more, but he did then. That part actually was true!

Dybala: You think you'll get a phone call from Walden or Dillon?

Mueller: Hard to say, I was joking, but you probably should edit that part out. That has me thinking, how does this work now? Do you type up the recording and email to me for proofing?

Dybala: I actually use a transcription service. They type everything up and then it gets sent to a proofreader and then they send it to me for approval before it is uploaded on the website. The whole thing is fairly automated, this could almost publish itself. But don't worry, I'll remind them to get rid of your Walden and Dillon comments.

Mueller: Ah, sounds good! Well, let's head out. Our driver is waiting and I have few other places I want to show you here in Bismarck. Our next stop is the Bistro, then on to the Broken Oar.

[Note from transcription service: Rest of recording is too muffled/noisy for transcription. Mostly sounds like people shouting over music. Final timestamp from recording - 04 June 2006, 3:18 am CDT at end of recorder limit]