Interview with Gerald Church Ph.D., Director of Audiology, Central Michigan University

AO/Beck: Hi Dr. Church. Thanks for giving us some time this evening. I'd like to learn about your program at Central Michigan University, and your thoughts on professional education in audiology.

Church: Sure Doug, thanks for giving me the time and space!

AO/Beck: You' re welcome. My recollection is that you were the second Au.D. program in the nation, and now you can actually make claim to being the oldest Au.D. program, is that correct?

Church: Yes, we started in 1994, the same year as the Baylor program. Baylor was the first program because in January of that year, they admitted some students with master's degrees. However, later that year, in August, we both started with our residential programs, admitting students that came in as undergrads. So we actually were tied with Baylor regarding residential students.

AO/Beck: Regarding the residential program, when did the first Doctors of Audiology graduate?

Church: The first class graduated in 1998, so we've had three classes graduate so far.
The first classes were the smallest.

AO/Beck: How many in total have graduated from the CMU residential program?

Church: To date, 20 total residential graduates.

AO/Beck: When did the distance education program at CMU start?

Church: September 1999.

AO/Beck: Regarding the distance ed. Program, what is the relationship between CMU and Vanderbilt?

Church: Dan Konkle Ph.D. is the director of our Distance Ed. program. The grant, which provided much of the start-up funding, was co-authored by Dan Konkle, Ph.D. and Fred Bess, Ph.D. and was funded by the Henry M. Jackson foundation. Dan and Fred have been friends for years and have collaborated on numerous projects.

AO/Beck: Tell me about the CMU/Vanderbilt program?

Church: Vanderbilt doesn't yet have an Au.D. program; CMU does. The CMU/Vanderbilt is strictly a distance ed. program and it's run through the Internet through the College of Extended Learning, which is a college within CMU. The students get their doctorate from CMU, but we work with the faculty at Vanderbilt and we use a lot of their resources to help educate and prepare the doctoral candidates.

AO/Beck: How many students are enrolled in the CMU/Vanderbilt distance Ed program?

Church: I think we have about 280 distance ed. students.

AO/Beck:: What is the average age of the student enrolled in the CMU/Vanderbilt program?

Church: I believe it's 42 years.

AO/Beck: What is the time commitment for the average student?

Church: It takes about two years. We have 8 courses, comprehensive exams and a doctoral capstone project. Within the 8 courses, there is a core of 3 courses and 5 electives. Most students take one course a semester, but some have taken two. Each course is offered every semester. The semesters are 12 weeks each and we run four semesters a year.

AO/Beck: What are the three core courses?

Church: Counseling, Advanced Auditory Evoked Potentials and Advanced Amplification.

AO/Beck: How many credits per course?

Church: Each course is three credits.

AO/Beck: What is the cost?

Church: The military/government students pay a little less, due to funding from the Jackson foundation. But for the typical student, the cost is $331.00 per credit hour, the program is 36 hours, so the tuition cost is about $12,000.00 to complete the program.

Beck: As far as the profession of audiology and doctoral education, how important is it for audiologists to be doctoral level professionals?

Church: As you know, I am rather biased on this, but since the end of the 1980s I've been pushing forward the doctoral program at CMU and I've been an advocate for the Au.D. in professional circles. I am rather passionate about this because I think the survival of our profession depends on doctoral education. The quality of the student and the training at the doctoral level is very different from the master's level and it is where the future lies. During the past twenty years I have educated both MA and Au.D. students. The Au.D. works. I have seen 20 Au.D. students graduate so far and I personally know of their expertise. My personal view is that professional autonomy only comes from knowledge and control of the data one produces. Only a doctoral level education allows the professional such control. If we had stayed with the master's program paradigm, the profession would have become obsolete and would have vanished. Technicians hand over their work for other professions to use to fix problems. Technicians will most likely be replaced in this century as technology continues to advance. Simply put, doctoral education, status and knowledge are critical to the future of our profession.

Beck: Has the Au.D. program attracted different students than the master's programs?

Church: Yes it has. I know that what Baylor tried to do 6 years ago was to attract pre-med students. At CMU, we've tried to broaden our student base. We've had a really good mix of students from all manner of academic backgrounds from microbiology, to linguistics, to English. We take only the very best students from the communication disorders undergrad programs. I think the Au.D. is attractive to the students and carries a higher profile than our MA did. Around seventy percent of our students come from outside of Michigan.

AO/Beck: What is the primary thing you look for in a new Au.D. student applicant?

Church: Obviously they must be strong academically, but the first thing I look for is their passion level. I want to be sure the student is totally psyched about audiology, they need to be passionate and enthusiastic about the profession.

AO/Beck: Do you think the MA/MS audiologist with 15 years experience will have a hard time getting a new position in 2005?

Church: Probably not. The 15 or 20 years of experience is not trivial. Of course you have to think about how difficult it will be to compete in the marketplace without a doctorate in a few years. But again, the experience and time in grade will probably speak for itself. As you know, your formal education is a starting point. The big question may be what did you do to with those 15 years? How did you improve yourself? What skills, competencies and areas of expertise do you bring to the table? Of course it's very different for a student coming out of an MA/MS program in 2005. That person will probably have a lot of problems!

AO/Beck: Given the necessity of the doctorate, and given the quick change in our profession from MA/MS to doctoral education, what are your thoughts as to the many programs being developed?

Church: Well, I think the number I've heard is that we have some 40 plus Au.D. programs in various stages of development. I think that's too many. Seems to me like 20 to 30 large, well-equipped, well-staffed programs is probably about right. The mistake we made with the MA/MS programs was that we (as a profession) had far too many programs, and most were too small to offer the experiences and equipment needed to truly prepare professionals for practice. Another problem is the aging of the professors!
I recently heard that the average age of audiology professors in the USA was 58 years. Sure, we can use Au.D. people to fill in the clinical classes, but we're going to face a shortage of Ph.D.s for the basic science and research courses. So, the profession will have to address this in the very near future. The lack of Ph.D.s will also slow down development of new Au.D. programs. Many will be unable to come on line because they will lack adequate faculty. Also, there appears to be a 'filtering process' which seems to occur in the number of student applicants to Au.D. programs. That is, many of the MA/MS programs do not tell or misinform their students about the Au.D., and then of course, by the time the student finds out what it's all about, they're half way through with their MA/MS program. This is certainly inappropriate and places the students at a great disadvantage. One major development which has helped stopped the filtering, has been the development of NAFDA. NAFDA has done a great job in getting the word out to the students. I think that will help increase the number of applicants per Au.D. program even as the number of Au.D. programs increase.

AO/Beck: Before I let you run, please tell me the new and exciting things impacting the CMU program?

Church: Our residential Au.D. program is going very well. We have 37 students in the program and we're expanding. I can envision a time in the next few years when we might be able to handle 50 students. We now have ten faculty members in the program, and again, we're growing, and looking forward to it. We have four major practicum experiences for each of our students at locations all over the United States. We have also sent some of our students to provide basic audiological services to the poor in Central America in conjunction with the Starkey foundation. Finally, in June of 2003 a new Health Professions building is planned for completion on the CMU campus. It will be a state of the art facility and I am excited that the Au.D. program will be located there.

AO/Beck: Dr. Church, for people who would like to find out more about the residential program or the distance ed program, how do they contact you or CMU?

Church: To contact me personally please have them email me at gerald.church@cmich.edu, or they can call my office at 517 774-7301.

If they are interested in the residential Au.D. degree program they can visit our website. We're at www.CHP.cmich.edu. For admission material they may contact chpadmit@cmich.edu or contact Ann Monroe at 517 774-2741.

If they are interested in our Au.D. distance program they should contact www.cel.cmich.edu/aud or contact Kendra Brown at 800 950-1144 (ext. 3867)

AO/Beck: Thanks Dr. Church, it's been a pleasure. I wish you the best and I'll look forward to learning more about the many successes at CMU.